Great bullpen last year, and awful this year. Wolf and Estada decent last year, and awful this year. Maybe the pitching coach is incapable of seeing the adjustments the pitchers need to make to be effective. Maybe he doesn't relate well to the players? Yes, the pitchers need to perform, but maybe it's as simple as release point, arm angle, or tipping pitches. It's hard to understand how K-Rod and Axford went from maybe the best 8th and 9th inning guys to arguably the worst that fast.

This is the second dumbest thread of the week. That's an accomplishment

Not really tough to understand, the bullpen is a crapshoot, guys struggled and need to be replaced every season.

To be honest. Pitching coach Rick Kranitz is one of two coaches whom I'm getting close to wanting to get fired.

They need Craig Counsell to be pitching coach. He's a LEADER

not that the guy who started this thread isn't a knob (Estrada has been solid this year among other things), but that makes no sense.

KRod and Ax were money last year. This year they're mediocre leaning towards bad. Saying the bullpen is a crapshoot, guys struggled and need to be replaced every season, unless I'm missing a point somewhere?

bingo, it happens all the time, usually not to this extent, but it happens. Guys who were once average or once lockdown struggle the next year. Last year it was pretty much just the setup man spot, but once they traded for K-rod, and got Saito and Hawkins back they were fine. In '10 they ended up having to replace just about the whole pen and that's when Ax, Braddock, and Parra etc. got their shot in the pen. In '08 they had to switch closers, and setup men a bunch of times. Gagne and Mota really flamed out.

You just have to expect to have some bullpen problems and guys that need to be replaced. Dominant late inning relievers turn to useless all the time.

Valid points. Same thing happened to Hoffman in 2010 after a solid 2009 campaign.

solid relievers have solid track records for the most part though. K-Rod's year by year numbers have been solid for example.

I guess we just didn't have a big enough sample size with guys like Loe and Axford.

Well K-Rod hasn't done all that bad compared to others that have struggled, I mean he's held about 17 leads plus a save this year to go with only 4 blown saves, I'd give him a shot at the closer's role. It was one thing to not let him have it last year with Ax dominating but now that Ax has struggled for half a season, it's worth a shot to mix it up.

You just have to go into each year expecting guys to struggle and being ready to shuffle in fresh arms.

Off subject sorry, but did ax's extention and huge payraise ever happen?

I hope not

nope, dodged a bullet there

almost never a good idea to give a relief pitcher big money, unless it's a one year deal I guess.

And if they don't trade greinke or feed wolf to the wolves, when marcum comes back and fiers is the odd man out would it be out of the question to have him close? I'm serious on this he might be the most consistant pitcher on the staff lately other than greinke.
Especially since cap'n Ron likes to stick with guys struggling I don't see wolf being put in the pen and estrada has been decent so I don't see him getting demoted. Maybe send ax down to let him get straightened out for a week or two. Would it be a bad idea?

I mean

Greinke

Gallardo

Marcum

Estrada

Wolf

Long relief and middle relievers

Parra

Loe

Hernandez

Dillard ( pray he never pitches)

Veras

Setup

K-Rod

Closer

Fiers

Doesn't sound that bad does it? Can't be much worse atleast

GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just curious though why not?

Did he want more years or more money?

I think K-Rod would get the first shot at closing, wouldn't be a bad idea to flip him with Ax, just to take a little pressure off Ax, I don't think he's been bad enough to be sent to the minors at this point.

Probably time to stop giving Veras important innings, his numbers are absolutly terrible (though he has held 7 leads along with a save with only one blown save). Still, a WHIP north of 1.80 and a BB/9 rate over 6, not a guy we need to have in there in close games. Might as well use Loe/Parra/Dillard/Hernandez before him.

I think it's time to really start looking at other options for the bullpen, make a waiver claim or two, bring up minor leaguers, just anything. In 2010 after a few months of terrible bullpen work 5 of the orginal 7 were already gone. Guys like Braddock, Axford, and Parra got chances and did pretty well. The same needs to be done this season.

Here's Ax's contract for this year, still a pre-arbitration guy

http://www.brewcrewball.com/2012/3/3/2842226/brewers-renew-john-axfords-contract-for-2012

or here

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/milwaukee-brewers/john-axford/

Thanks! What do u think they do with Fiers? Hes been too good to send back down to the minors. In long relief he probably won't pitch enough. Just think they need his arm in a spot that matters. Even though hes only pitched in 7 games ( I think) hes shown he can pitch at this level.

Yeah he needs to stay in the rotation. He'll probably take Greinke's spot when he gets traded, if they keep Greinke and are "going for it" this year then there'd be no way they can justify keeping Wolf in the rotation and sending Fiers down and I think they make the tough decision and move Wolf to the pen or DFA him.

There's just no way you can take a guy like Fiers out of the rotation with how well he's pitched.

Is there a market for wolf? If so, Being the 2nd highest paid pitcher on the staff behind Greinke, if they could trade him instead of Greinke could they use that money to offer Greinke a deal such as 5 years 115 mil? Would it hurt them long term in ways of signing other FA or giving others extensions? Or is it possible wolf realizes that he doesn't deserve the almost 10 mil hes making now and restructure his contract to better the team?
or is trading Gallardo a possibility? Or a trade for a Phil Hughes type guy possible?

Greinke

Hughes type or Gallardo ( if not traded for Hughes type guy)

Marcum ( if he signs cheap to stay here and try to win) or Fiers

Estrada or Fiers

Estrada or peralta

Sorry bout the dumb questions. There probably annoying you but im just curious if there is any REAL possible way to extend Greinke

Hows this for a rotation...

Gallardo

Estrada

Narveson?

Fiers

Vargas/McClung/Peralta

Go Brewers! Try to win 60 games with that