What if you had a bad team and bad ownership and bad front office? The park is practically empty. Just tune in to 627 Comcast. I am waiting for the front office to whine about poor attendance next, and that is why we still stink , we can't afford to get better. We have the worst owners and front office in MLB.

Agreed. There is no way to defend this putrid pile of cr** this front office has assembled.

Attendance has been falling since after 2001 with 2007 being the only up year. Low attendance has been the norm for some time do that's nothing new, and the FO is well aware of it.

Really?

Bill Bavasi said that, at the time he was GM, nobody in the FO had the stomach for a 5-year rebuild plan, precisely for this reason. The team knew that going into a rebuild, with young players who will struggle, and a team that will be unsuccessful, would drive attendance down. Apparently after trying it the other way, the FO has found their stomach.

They're aware of this. They know. This is one reason why I keep telling you people that you don't really have a choice but to be patient. The FO has finally swallowed a bitter pill it SHOULD have swallowed 9 years ago. Two off seasons ago, this same Front Office publicly stated that the team budget for players would not decrease. Though the payroll did go down, it wasn't because of anything the FO was deliberately doing. As I've stated, going younger, dumping old albatross contracts, and doing that 5-year rebuild plan is going to lead to a lower payroll intuitively. During this same run of several years of faltering attendance and payroll decreases, this same FO allowed the money to be spent for a Felix Hernandez extension. This same FO allowed Jack Zduriencik to pursue the potentially expensive Prince Fielder this last off season.

I know that you folks are frustrated and impatient, but quite frankly, y'all really need to stop seeking scapegoats. Just accept it.

In a couple of years when we are winning again folks will start filling the seats again. The owners are all millionaires and billionaires. They know how to make money and they know what they are doing. You have to remember this is an investment. They dont want to see their investment go down the drain. A losing team isnt worth as much as a winning team.

the mariners have the worst scouting department in baseball and its not close. Jeff Clement at #3 in 2005 biggest bust of all time . #11 aumont in 2007 (who?)...another loser first rounder josh fields... a career AAA player dustin ackley at #2 what a pathetic ball player.... they drafted another loser catcher and traded for one of the biggest bust of all time from new york

I assume you have a source, link backing up that the Mariners have the worst scouting dept. I'd like to see it. BTW all the old scouts that brought Clement are gone, fired etc... Jack Z hired his own scouts from his Milwaulkee days.

"the mariners have the worst scouting department in baseball and its not close. Jeff Clement at #3 in 2005 biggest bust of all time . #11 aumont in 2007 (who?)...another loser first rounder josh fields.."

Good thing THAT Scouting department doesnt work for the Mariners any more....
ALL of the Key Front office positions that made those draft picks are LONG GONE

Top Scouting Department positions and hire dates
Duane Shaffer -- 2008
Bill Masse -- 2010
Tom McNamara - 2009

Unless you you have some information that Tom McNamara was secretly calling Bill Bavasi and giving him advice, your statement is misleading and false.

Wow, that is some level of negativity.

Clement, Aumont and Fields have had enough time to see that they are busts. They've had different guys in this position since then. They aren't stinking it up here anymore though.

Ackley a career AAA player? Plenty of players have sophomore slumps. Ackley just needs to readjust to the pitchers that have adjusted to him and have a solid scouting report on him now. The tools are all there for him to be a good ball player despite the frustrating season he's had so far.

Look how bad Jason Heyward was last year.

Zunino might end up being awesome. You aren't in a position to judge him currently. Who did you want the Mariners to draft? Drafting another pitcher would have angered many. There was no magically awesome future stud bat and if there was, Houston and Minnesota would have drafted them ahead of us. Aren't you sick of the number of years we've had to look at Rob Johnson and Miguel Olivo catching for us? I'm quite glad to add a guy that is racking up national awards left and right and looks to be quite a bit better than those two guys for us eventually.

Montero is 22, and while he hasn't turned into a stud hitter yet, he's done alright for himself in his first full year in the majors. Far too many scouts have praised his ability with the stick to assume he wont' hit at a high level for us in the future.

This isn't any fun for any of us. I hate the fact that I paid money for the baseball TV package so I could actually have a chance to watch all the young developing players get better and to actually watch Felix pitch that isn't a highlight on MLB network or text lines on mlb.com and we are once again heading for a near 100 loss season.

Right now we have to show patience, though. If this current group of youthful players all develop into a core that isn't capable of even playing .500 baseball then I think we can all cry and panic.

Until then, let's accept the fact that this whole process is still going to take a while.

But but but we should be rebuilt! Why haven't all of our first round of rebuilding become instant stars in their first full seasons and carried us to a playoff berth?!

I don't think it's scape goats we're looking for, so much as reassurance that they have selected players that can get it done at the major league level for many years to come and that this group isn't just more lipstick on a pig. This franchise doesn't have good marks in talent evaluation over the years. And it is well known that the top brass is largely to blame for this.

Problem is that they are making a lot of money (in terms of team value) in spite of the losing. The bottom line for them is to show a profit year in and year out, which helps the value of the team along. Teams that spend towards the bottom of the league NEVER lose money. They might not have huge revenues, but they are profitable.

Seem like they would want to strike a better balance between winning and attendance. They have proof that people come when they are winning. Piniella even pointed that out when he came back last year for the 2001 10th anniversary team. Sometimes, I think that Bavassi mismanaged their money so bad, they are not willing to go out on a limb again and are just going with a lean/mean model to get by.

How many more games would we really have won at this point if we had dropped 100 million in Mark Buehrle and Michael Cuddyer? Any?

Not on those guys, no. Really, the issue at hand is that it would take a lot of $ to make this team competitive from where it is from now. Neither of those guys appealed to me. I don't totally disagree with the team if the mid-range plan is to develop a core and then add as needed in FA. To me the bigger issue is that I really am starting to doubt whether or not we will have a core to add onto when the time comes. I think you and I have had this discussion before. These guys are young, but they aren't going to make rocket leaps when they hit 27 or 28 years old. They are already starting to show their cards by performing at the same level of consistency. We need to clear our minds that this is all part of development and all these guys are just making normal process. They clearly are not. And what are the odds that out of 5-6 offensive prospects that they all just s>uck at once, but will all turn out OK? It's a very competitive league and a very competitive division? When do you see this team realistically contending based on where we are at now?

By the way, I calculated that the Mariners are on pace to score over seventy more runs than they did last year, so maybe it is progress. But still nowhere near good.

> They are already starting to show their cards by performing at the same level of consistency.

Ackley, first full season.
Montero, first full season.
Wells, not even playing full time.
Seager, first full season.
Carp, hurt.
Noesi, first season being a MLB starter.
Erasmo Ramirez, first taste of the big leagues.
Smoak hasn't even gotten that many at bats in the majors.

Look at our own Michael Saunders. Guy DESTROYED AAA as a 22 year old. Didn't find any consistency or production at all really until he was 24 years old after multiple cups of coffee.

Heck, you can even look at other top young talent. Heyward had a really big down year last year. Justin Upton took a long time to get to where he is too. And these are SUPERSTAR young players, not just "core" players.

Only SUPER STARS of the highest caliber hit the big leagues in their early 20's and dominate. And even then they still get better with time. Felix took a good 4 years to become a consistent ace.

> We need to clear our minds that this is all part of development and all these guys are just making normal process.

This is exactly the normal process of player development. If you're looking for players who hit a high level of production in the early part of their 20's you're going to find a short list. I highly recommend not judging players based on even an entire season of data. Even old veterans have pretty big swings year to year. Young players getting their first taste of the bigs? You can bet you are going to see changes.

> When do you see this team realistically contending based on where we are at now?

Contending? Could be next year, could be 3 years from now. That is the thing about developing talent yourself. It can happen fast or take time. Ackley might become an all star next year, but if Smoak doesn't become useful for another year or two, etc, etc. Too much variation to know really.

Wedge stated expect multiple young hitters to be sent down next week. It's on several of Bakers blogs and stories.

And in their place?
Here is the link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/

OK, so look at the A's roster. Tell me why they should be 7.5 games better than us just midway through the season. They are pretty much as young as we are with a few vets mixed in. The Pirates in the NL are just as young as we are. Why don't they s<ck? They have 25 and 26 year olds carrying that team into first place. They are younger and miles ahead of us. Look at the Rays and how they compare to us. Sure they have some vets, but also a very young team. What about the Nats younger than us too? The problem with PNW sports fans is that they have such lousy teams out here that they just learn to recite various rebuilding mantras without even really comparing to how they stack up against others just as young with much bright futures.
Sorry, but you can't list off seven guys and make excuses for all of them. It's like flipping a penny and coming up with tail seven times in a row. What's the chances of throwing out seven names and they all come up s<ucking. Even if this team does come along and improve, their ceiling is way below contending not in this league, not in this division. Sorry, but the Mariners long term game plan just doesn't appeal to me. They don't have enough to work with to even build on. Let's just see who, if anybody, gets sent down next week and we can resume this discussion. Then you can explain to me why our 26 year olds can't hack it in the major leagues and why the 26 year olds on other teams all throughout the league are.