Let's see, Bud Black leaves and all of a sudden Shields goes from most reliable relief pitcher to a head case. Fernando Rodney goes from a great closer (37 out of 38 saves) to a POS. Leaves to TB and is great again. CJ Wilson goes from a ace type in a hitters ballpark to a pitcher now who can't go 5 innings without throwing 100 pitches. Ever since dude took over, the bullpen has been as bad as Hatcher's offense.

Aside from that, the Mensa one needs to go. And if they don't make the playoffs or don't get past the wild card, he's gone. To much talent on the team. They should hire Francona. If it wasn't for Dipota telling Mensa Mike to play Trout, period, he would already be fired. We all know how Mensa prefers vets over rookies.

I think you are giving the pitching coach way to much credit for the teams failures; all the while not putting the blame on the pitchers themselves. The Angels bullpen is mediocre to start off with, and has been from the start. The SP should be doing better, but to claim that CJ was an "ace type" pitcher is a bit much. He is a good number 2 pitcher, and a very good number 3, but has never been an ace. Greinke, well I think that most GM's in the game have always been very hesitant with him. He has all the talent in the world, but his home/away splits are horrible (and he is kind of pitching away games no matter what for the rest of the year), and he has other issues that I do not really need to mention.

The best pitcher in the Angels BP is on the DL, and it was inevitable that Frieri was eventually going to come back down to earth. Everyone else in the pen is average.

Regarding your statement on Rodney...

He was a hard throwing mediocre reliever for the Tigers before his 37/38 save season of 2009. However, his ERA that year? It was 4.40, which is just 0.10 lower than his highest ERA as an Angel. Also, sure Rodney is having a good year, but his career stats suggest there is absolutely no way he'll have another season like this again. Remember Mike Napoli's 2011 season. Now look at Mike Napoli's 2012 season. Was it Hatcher? Does the Rangers hitting coach just <suck because Napoli can't repeat his 2011 season?

"However, his ERA that year?"

His e.r.a./whip that year in save/hold situation was 2.09/1.18. His e.r.a and whip were inflated in non save situations and a few bag games. A lot of closers do not do well in non save opps.

I thought is was a really dumb signing by the Angels if they weren't going to just use him save situations. That is where he did his best. They did not sign him as a closer and gave him a lot of money. It was never going to work with the Angels. I think if you put him in the closers role and let him alone and he knows his role, you could expect better numbers. Mike gave him the quick hook in 2011 at the start of the season. Obvioulsy I do not think he is this good, but he was very effective in save ops in 2009.

What on earth is going on in Mike S's head yesterday! It was like watching a train wreck in slow motion and nobody doing anything to stop it. Does Butcher have any impute with Mike during the game or is he just a lackey yes man? I mean a 7 year old could tell that Hawkins had nothing and was going to lose it.

Butcher has been suspect for some time. Bud Black was so good...wish we could get him back! Our bullpen is a disaster and if they don't right the ship, our season is done. The starting line up has given them so many leads only to watch them blow it up in a heartbeat...so frustrating!!

Finally another Angel Fan who gets it. the only thing to add, is bring up Conger and let him be the catcher!

Iannetta has been pretty good after coming back off of the disabled list, both at and behind the plate. I don't know what you think Conger can do more than what Iannetta has done. Conger is still a prospect. When you're in the middle of a pennant race and trying to catch up, no less, is not the time to experiment and see what you have in an unproven commodity.

Remember when Chuck Hernandez was our pitching coach?

Ya i agree. See how good bud is doing with the padres! Not.

(I posted this in another thread, but it's more appropriate for this one)

I'm not sure Butcher is really the problem.

Weaver is probably the best pitcher in the game.
CJ has had a good year for us overall, even though he's going through a rough patch at the moment.
Haren I believe has been battling injury the whole year and he's getting older, but he's starting to turn it around.
Santana has been up and down his whole career, but he's starting to figure things out finally.
Greinke is adjusting to a new team and league, but its still early and I'm not worried about him.

If you look at the bullpen we actually have alot of guys overachieving.

Downs has been much better than his career stats under Butcher.
Isringhausing didn't pitch last year, is almost 40, and is having better numbers that his career avg.
Hawkins is also almost 40, and he's having better numbers than his career average.
Frieri has performed better for us than his career average, and we've put him in high leverage situations where for the most part he has performed above expectations.
Jepson looks like he's turned a corner.

I could go on, but I don't see why fans are calling for Butcher to be fired with results like that

Bring in Kevin Kennedy he wont tolerate our hitters getting thrown at unlike Mikey" we play nice baseball here"

Thank you for bringing him up Chuck Hernandez. What a terrible pitching coach almost as bad as Mickey Hatcher as hitting coach.

Firing a coach isn't always about getting rid of someone that can't do the job. Often times it's to get the attention of players not getting the job done.

>>I'm not sure Butcher is really the problem.<<

No, but he's not the solution either. And he hasn't been his whole time here, which is the problem.

"Butcher has been suspect for some time. Bud Black was so good."

No arguments there. The Angels had consistently great pitching until Bud left and Butch took the helm. Since then it's been hit and miss. Coincidence?

"No, but he's not the solution either. And he hasn't been his whole time here, which is the problem."

The solution isn't to get rid of a pitching coach who has a very good record.

The solution is to get some decent arms in the bullpen, and not rely on 40 year old arms to carry us to the postseason.

Why make Butcher the scapegoat, when he's having success with the limited tallent he's been given?

Seems like your putting the cart before the horse if you ask me.

< Bud Black was so good...wish we could get him back! >

The Angels' pitchers were "so good" then, I doubt Black would be any better than Butcher with this bunch.

< The solution is to get some decent arms in the bullpen, and not rely on 40 year old arms to carry us to the postseason. >

And we have a winner! Tell him what he's won., Johnny!

Dipoto inherited a pretty bad bullpen, so some would say its not his fault. The problem is, Dipoto didn't really do anything to fix it during the off season so ended up having to pay more to try and fix it during the season.

That is where Butcher comes into play or should I say should have. He had a hard time trying to fix last years mess, and so far hasn't fixed any of those that were here last year. Jepsen had to go back to AAA to relearn his pitching, Walden has stayed with the club and hasn't done much better than last year.

Butcher has had a good run with the club, time for a different coach and approach, it can't get much worse with the pen and perhaps just the change of coach is enough like the hitting coach.